Toronto Dance Salsa Forums


 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 


still searching
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Toronto Dance Salsa Forums Forum Index -> Website / Classes Suggestions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
timbero1



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Yanek's DVD Reply with quote

Here is a pattern that would by done in MODERN CUBAN SALSA DANCING

Yanek even breaks it down for you so you can learn it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bjjyNxijEA
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MissChievous



Joined: 09 Oct 2006
Posts: 107
Location: North York

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about Belly Dance? Helps your bodywaves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
blackout1999



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 121
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:17 pm    Post subject: The third cha Reply with quote

What's the deal, salsa people? Timbero1 wrote:

it's cha cha CHA, not cha cha. I hope you don't forget the last CHA when you are dancing.

I haven't danced cha cha(cha) that much but I dare say all of the salsa people(or most of them) know the last cha does occur when dancing the cha cha(oops, I forgot the third cha again). Timbero, this friendly topic is for suggestions on what special classes we should have. I do welcome any suggestions you or anyone else might have but please keep it friendly. For everyone else, keep the suggestions coming. Holla back at ya boy!
_________________
You knooow!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
timbero1



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: cha cha cha Reply with quote

I didn't mean to offend anyone. It was just a friendly reminder.

But I am sure that Cubans who invented cha cha cha and invented rumba might be bothered that North Americans call it by the wrong names.

It is just "cha cha" sounds so Ballroom or Anglosaxonized. Why can't we respect the inventions of other countries without trying to make it so Hollywood?

It would be different if the ballroom or the Anglo Saxon world actually produced new cha cha cha music every year or innovated the music. Maybe then, they would have the right to change the name.

Of course, I am right. It is cha cha cha. But why do people get so upset?

I have a Colombian friend who always corrects people on the spelling of her country. It is spelled Colombia, not Columbia. Funny thing is that some people in Canada get upset.

We can't respect other people from other cultures to name their own things? Even their own countries?

I am just saying that if you say cha cha instead of cha cha cha in Cuba and the Latin world, people automatically know where you are coming from and make assumptions about you. The words you use are very important.

I am just trying to bring a little of "color" that is badly needed in the Latin dancing in North America. A different perspective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Valentin



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 49
Location: The centre of the Universe, so far :)

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: It's cha-cha Reply with quote

timbero1 wrote:
Of course, I am right. It is cha cha cha. But why do people get so upset?

You are wrong. In all English dictionaries the entry is written as cha-cha, NOT "cha cha cha":
E.g. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cha-cha

Anyone who speaks English has to respect the dictionary, that's the authority in spelling and defining the words of the language.

Quote:
But I am sure that Cubans who invented cha cha cha and invented rumba might be bothered that North Americans call it by the wrong names. It is just "cha cha" sounds so Ballroom or Anglosaxonized. Why can't we respect the inventions of other countries without trying to make it so Hollywood?


Finally, I understand the way you see Salsa. For you it's an invention, a technology, something that is certified, patented and described by a standard that everyone must obey. And of course you are the only one who decides who is the right author and who is compliant with that standard.

Quote:
I am just saying that if you say cha cha instead of cha cha cha in Cuba and the Latin world, people automatically know where you are coming from and make assumptions about you. The words you use are very important.

Yeah, I bet they'll put you on the electric chair if you say cha-cha instead of chachacha. Next time I visit Cuba I'll make sure to say it even more times, like chachachachachacha just to be safe Laughing Laughing ... Laughing

Quote:
I am just trying to bring a little of "color" that is badly needed in the Latin dancing in North America. A different perspective.

You might have that different perspective, only it's "a bit" destructive Sad
Seriously, most of your posts are disparaging to anything that's not Cuban. The problem is you don't realize how much damage you do to the image of Cuba here by that attitude.

PS. Oh, and to be fair, you're right about Colombia. But that's also not because you or I say it. It's because the English dictionaries have it like that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
timbero1



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: see below Reply with quote

see below

Last edited by timbero1 on Fri May 30, 2008 8:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
timbero1



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: cha cha cha Reply with quote

I am sure that cha cha exists in the English dictionaries. Read carefully. It says cha cha is a Ballroom dance. I don't think you guys teach Ballroom. The Latin dances in Ballroom are British versions of Latin dances. Naturally, they would want to invent their own words for their "creations".

You complain that I create a standard that everybody must follow. Then you say I have to follow the spelling and the authority of English dictionaries regarding the NAMES of certain things in a FOREIGN language ?

Of course, I have a standard. My standard is the musicians and dancers who created the music and still keep on maintaining the music and dance. In this case, they are almost always Cubans. However, if one day in Canada, Japan, Sweden or anywhere, innovative world class bands create great cha cha cha music and create big a cha cha cha craze among the general public and really change and innovate the music and dance, then my standard would change. It is not only my personal standard ask any Latin or Cuban person if they perfer the word cha cha or cha cha cha.

You also have a dance standard. A standard based on English and North American watering down of Cuban music and dance. It reminds me of when the whites in the USA saw the blacks dancing Lindy Hop. They were amazed how they danced, but they thought it was too "savage" and tried to make it more "elegant" and more "athletic". White dancers like the Castles "civilized" it and then it become popular among the whites in the States. And now, we have little record of how the African Americans danced and the only version that we know today is the more "civilized" one. Now, it is hard to believe Lindy Hop once used the movements and improvisation of African dances.

You see it is all about who has the power to define what dance is. Most people in North American learn about Latin dancing from American TV and movies taking in all the North American misunderstandings of Cuban music and dance. I mean what could a small poor country like Cuba thousands of miles away do in the appropriation of their music and dance against cultural power of the British Empire or Hollywood?

Of course, my comments would be "destructive" to people who have a stake in maintaining the old definitions and the status quo. When Muhammad Ali changed his name from Cassius Clay, many people thought this was "destructive" also. I am sure many people that told him that he didn't know what kind of damage he was doing to the image of African Americans.

The fact you think I am an extremist show how little time you have spent with Cubans, because almost all would agree with me, or with American Latin people who perhaps didn't grow up with English or North American version of things. In Cuba, they won't put you in the electric chair if you say "cha-cha", but they probably assume you won't be very open minded to things more Cuban.

Any "damage" I cause will be to people who really don't care about learning about Latin music and culture. These are people who are more comfortable in their stereotypes anyways. At least, they will know there is an alternative view no matter how arrogant and overbearing they think I am.

If you disagree with me and you think I am an extremist or nationalist or whatever and this post causes you to learn more about Cuban music or learn more Spanish just to show how wrong I am, then I would be proud and this post would have served some purpose.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Valentin



Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 49
Location: The centre of the Universe, so far :)

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: cha cha cha Reply with quote

timbero1 wrote:
I am sure that cha cha exists in the English dictionaries. Read carefully. It says cha cha is a Ballroom dance. I don't think you guys teach Ballroom. The Latin dances in Ballroom are British versions of Latin dances. Naturally, they would want to invent their own words for their "creations".


At the moment the word entered the dictionary, the year 1954, ballroom meant social dance, and it still means generally social dances.
Even for the particular and more actual meaning of the word ballroom, I don't see a conflict between a Ballroom dance and its original or other variation forms. I know that good dancers are curious to learn more versions of the same dance because that enriches their own experience and adds more skills. So cha-cha can be useful to a salsa dancer in any of its forms, in my opinion.

Quote:
You complain that I create a standard that everybody must follow. Then you say I have to follow the spelling and the authority of English dictionaries regarding the NAMES of certain things in a FOREIGN language ?"


A language is a standard adopted against all the other languages. There is no way English will follow Spanish (or any other language) linguistic standards, and viceversa (Spanish to follow English or other languages). It's the nature of things, blame Babel for it Smile

Also, I didn't complain about anything. I just observed the "technological" perception that you have about dance, music in general and salsa in particular.
You see, dance and music are forms of art. They are not standards. Well, you can regard the basics as standards, but what is above basics has too many variations to be considered a standard (variations from school to school, from performer to performer, or changes in time).

Quote:
Of course, I have a standard. My standard is the musicians and dancers who created the music and still keep on maintaining the music and dance.


Your standard doesn't have a realistic purpose. Musicians or dancers can't agree upon a standard in salsa, and they won't and they shouldn't do that, for the reasons I said above. And also, notice that nobody maintains art (in an unchanged state). Art IS change. Get used to it.

Quote:
You also have a dance standard. A standard based on English and North American watering down of Cuban music and dance.


Where did you get the idea that I have a standard? You're the one who finds faults on various salsa styles, not me.
Also, I didn't write that you are an extremist. But now that you said it, I think you are Very Happy
The strange thing is that only for the fact that you spent time among Cubans you think you are entitled to represent them "against North America" in some sort of a cultural battle. I think that's not their problem, and you're fighting for an illusion.

And to be clear, the damage you are causing to Cuba's image is this: after reading what you write, people will get fed up with the Cuban cultural "purity" and "superiority" that you proclaim, and then they will lose interest in the subjects related to Cuba.

Isn't that against the very purpose of presenting Cuba's culture here?
Instead of saying "you guys should do this Cuban style because what you're doing is not original hence it's wrong", wouldn't be wiser to say "hey guys, look at this, isn't it cool/fun/nice/great? If you want to learn new patterns I can show/teach you patterns of this Cuban style".
Think about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blackout1999



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 121
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: OK, that was a doosy Reply with quote

What's the deal, salsa people? OK, that was a doosy. Valentin and Timbero, it seems that one little misinterpretation is leading into a huge argument about a number of disagreements. Guys, it would be appreciated if the argument stops now and only focus at the topic at hand: suggestions on specialty classes. Both of you seem to have a huge knowledge of the history of salsa and other forms of dance, which I give major props but once again, this is just a friendly discussion. Of course, for everyone else, keep em coming. Holla back at ya boy!
_________________
You knooow!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
analytix



Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: More Cha Cha Cha Reply with quote

I came from the other side of the globe and didn’t have any background in music or dance still I always grew up with the word ‘Cha Cha Cha’. It is because ‘Cha Cha Cha’ is very popular in my country and more popular than Salsa or other form of Latin dance. We used to call it ‘Cha Cha Cha’ not ‘Cha Cha’. But when I saw the first entry of ‘Cha Cha’ I readily understood what the writer was trying to mean; frankly speaking, it didn’t even come into my mind that third ‘Cha’ is missing. Even if I would have noticed it still I would not have been so picky about it. This dance is so popular and well known unless somebody is coming from an alien world would make this kind of deliberate mistake. These people love dance so much and they are so much into it, they would not be so ignorant and naďve – that would be my first reaction.

Timber01 I love your writings and have learnt many things from your write-ups. You always try to protect your language and culture, assuming you are from Cuba or some other Latin country, and that’s very patriotic and I always respect that. Still I would say, please, take it with a grain of salt, sometimes you over react on a very trivial issue and Valentin rightly said by that you are actually doing more harm to your language and culture rather than doing any good.

The poet from my language got the first Nobel Prize for literature in the whole continent. Funny thing is the work for which he got the Nobel Prize was first translated into English just to be even considered for the prize and I have doubt how much the translator, who was from an English speaking country, could actually portray his feelings. Even now when I saw people mentioning his name on radio or TV, it was totally distorted and hardly any English speaking person try or can say his name correctly. Also many people sacrificed their life in my country to protect our language which is the only incident in the known history of the world, that’s why that day has been adopted as International Mother Language Day by UNESCO. But still I don’t expect people to pronounce the name of the places in my country or even my name correctly. If I become too picky about this in no time I will go mental. Rather I respect people’s intention and look at it positively – they are at least trying which can just come out of love for something. Why do you think so many people around the world, without any Latin background, dance Salsa, simply because they love it? So if I were from a Latin country I would have felt good about it and would have dealt with it more open mindedly.


Last edited by analytix on Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
latinsalsa



Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:49 am    Post subject: Cha Cha Cha Reply with quote

I don't think Yankadi and Macru, the West African dances from Guinea, would have qualified as Ballroom dances, even in 1954, even though they are social dances and use partners.

I think timbero1 goes overboard sometimes. He is too nationalistic and overbearing. However, I don't think Timbero ever used the work "authentic". I think that is more Valentin's word.

Valentin is right. Art is always changing. But there are things called genres. If you put a song to a samba beat, you can't call it salsa anymore.

But I guess I get the gist of what Joseph is saying. Jonathan Rosenbaum, the famous film critic, related a good story.

There was a university student in the Alabama who complained that he had to take Spanish for his major. And he said if English was good enough for Jesus that it was good enough for him.

Or an American teenager who went to Wales and called Welsh people, English. When they told her that they don't like to be called English, she said she couldn't help it because that is what they taught her in school.

I think a lot of people are thinking like this about salsa. How many Canadian salsa dancers think that Latin salsa dancing from Latin American is not as developed as New York or Los Angeles?

I think Valentin is more level headed and right about many things. But also I find his thoughts about Latin dancing a little bit too touchy feely, New Agey, Oprah Winfreyesque and more like a advertisement for Dirty Dancing Havana Nights.

The perfect salsero would be half a timbero and half a Valentin. Have you guys thought about marriage?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
latinsalsa



Joined: 29 Feb 2008
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: cha cha = maid in Spanish Reply with quote

Personally, I don't care whether you say "cha cha" or "cha cha cha". But be cafeful when you speak to Spanish speaking people. At least, in Mexico, "chacha" is a little rude way to say maid or the female domestic help. It comes from "muchacha". So, it would be wiser to say cha cha cha to Spanish speaking people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LindsayJoan



Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2
Location: North York

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been waiting & waiting for a Hip Hop class to start here ever since I moved to the area. I am really bummed that my only options are Friday evening or early Saturday! I bartend on weekends, so they aren't an option for me...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SalsaConvert



Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 142
Location: Dancing is Portable:)

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LindsayJoan, with all due respect, 12:45 p.m. is not TOO early even by me though I would still qualify it as morning Smile
Just a suggestion: even if you go to bed at 6 a.m. it's still 6 hours of sleep until noon, so you could easily make the class, and then take a shower and go back to bed. Think it over - it may be a feasible solution when you work nights to still catch the best of the day. That's what I often do to catch a gym class in the morning, and I usually put my alarm clock for half an hour before the session starts, providing it takes me circa 10 min to get there.
So far, it works for me. It may work for you as well.
_________________
Music is my religion, salsa is my confession
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Toronto Dance Salsa Forums Forum Index -> Website / Classes Suggestions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


© Toronto Dance Salsa